Sunday, October 25, 2009

Abortion.

I read Jenera's blog today about the topic of abortion and I haven't been able to shake it. She spoke of a story about a woman who wrote a book about the 15 abortions she had and even called herself an addict to abortion.

I can't really tell you more about it, as I had to click away before even finishing the article cause it pissed me off so much. (Here is a link to her blog post about it, so you can read it yourself if you'd like.) There were many reasons (reason does not equal excuse) for the abortions, something about her controlling husband and this was the only control she had, but still. Having 15 abortions is horrific, but to write a fucking "memoir" about it? Fuck. Anything for money these days.

I'm pro-choice. I am NOT pro-abortion. I am anti-late term abortions other than when the woman's life is at stake. (and for me, "late term" is a very grey and hazy line). I would never get an abortion and I think I'm even against many of the reasons women get abortions, but I am PRO CHOICE. It's their bodies, their babies, and it should be left up to them. I hate so many reasons why people have abortions, but that's neither here nor there. It's not me. It's not my body. And I don't think the government should control what we do with our bodies.

I can't help but think of that blogger I really came down hard on for her choice of abortion. She went through IVF, got pregnant with twins, and was so freaked out about having twins she aborted them. (I don't know if she transferred two or if the one embryo split to make identical twins. It doesn't really matter in my mind. If they split 8 times, okay, different situation, but twins?) It still makes my blood boil. But in my anger, I just struck out. I should have kept my mouth shut as it was her decision and I agree that it ~was~, in fact, her choice to make.

Ugh. I don't even know what I'm blogging about right now, except I just needed to get it out of my head.

32 comments:

rocket.queen. said...

Dude. Fuck her. That is all. I'm on the same page with you on being pro-choice politically but pro-life personally and it still hurts to hear about people having abortions. But seriously, fuck her.

Io said...

There has to be something mentally wrong with that woman to do that. It's really sad in all ways.
And I hate that she wrote a fucking book to tell all about it. Because people who don't understand that abortion is sometimes necessary will use this as an example the same way that people against ART use Octomom as an example.

areyoukiddingme said...

I really dislike abortion as birth control, but I would not ever want to live in a place where abortion was not available. I pity the woman who aborted her twins, because she worked so hard to get there. I don't understand the decision, but I can't fault her, since I don't know what made her make that decision.

The crazy lady with her 15 abortions? Well, she is definitely a case study for aberrant behavior, but she should not be considered in any abortion argument. To me, it's like cutting. You don't ban razor blades or knives because someone uses them to hurt themselves or others.

Jenera said...

Obviously you know how I feel :). But I do want to say something about the part about the IVF chick. Though I have never gone through it, I would imagine that a woman knows the possibilities of what may happen, meaning multiples. Why is her situation any different than a woman who becomes pregnant with twins without IF treatments?

I am against abortions mainly because I do not agree with the killing of a child. If they are to be legal I think there need to be more safeguards for our daughters in this country. It terrifies me that some girls at 14 can go get an abortion without a parent.

Anyway, this topic is just heartbreaking on so many levels and I'm still all worked up when I think about it!

nancy said...

I think it's different because she paid $20,000+ for her procedure. The abortion is the same, but it's different all at once.

Jenera said...

I'm a dork, I meant to add in there that if a woman who became pregnant with twins without treatments and she decided to abort one (or more in the case of triplets etc) there would most likely be an outrage by many other women and mothers-as was the case with your story and the IVF woman.

I guess I'm trying to say that pregnancy is always a gamble in what you get. You may have higher odds with having multiples but that doesn't mean you should just run around aborting them because you can't 'handle' it.

I hope that makes better sense.

Beautiful Mess said...

I read this, obviously, Jenera's post AND the article and I had to step away and think about this. I was VERY angry, still am. I do not think 15 abortions is right, nor do I think she should have written a book about it! The abusive husband (or whatever you want to call it)? What the fuck ever! Seriously leave him! I'm not trying to be a Polly Anna or anything, but she could've left. Having aborted 15 babies is not how to cope!

As of right now, abortion is not for me. I can't speak for future me becuase who knows what my future might hold, but I can safely say that right now, I would never get an abortion. I did support a very close friend through hers and that was tough, personally, for me. But the situation wasn't about me, it was about her. I'm not sure if I could support her if she ever got another one.

I sure hope this woman's story doesn't fuel any anti abortion campaigns. It isn't a proper example.

Thanks for writing about this and leading back to Jenera's blog!
*HUGS* (to everyone who needs it or wants it after reading this woman's story)

Rachel said...

First, I didn't click over to the link because, well, life's too short to get mad at every idiot. Although the publisher, well, I'd have something to say to them. Obviously this woman was mentally sick.

However, I just don't get people who say they are pro-choice but personally 'would never have one.' With all due apologies, it reeks of self-righteousness. How in the world can you know that you'd never be in a situation where you absolutely could not handle a pregnancy (and I must add AND baby - since we did we expect those who fall unexpectedly pregnant to turn into womb-robots, completely not bond with the baby who is kicking them, and hand them away with blase to the waiting young couple who has always wanted to adopt an infant?).

Nancy, as a former addict, are you use that if you had found yourself 3 months pregnant while in the throes of your addiction you would have both had the confidence in your ability to quit using drugs immediately and to parent a baby who might potentially be born without the ability to ever care for itself? Really?

This is not meant to be an attack on you, just that I think that those of us who are pro-choice (and who seem to be a minority in the internets) need to fight against the idea that people have abortions because they're irresposible or unloving or who knows what. The overwhelming majority of people have abortions because of terrible situations (or who happen to be mothers who need to focus on providing the basics for the children they already have - some incredibly high number of women seeking abortions already have and parent multiple children), and I can easily imagine terrible situations where (much as I desperately want another baby), simply could not handle a pregnancy or baby.

Larissa said...

Wow. Holy crap. That woman cannot be mentally stable. 15? I don't think I've done 15 of anything. I am not going to state my stance on abortions, but to have an abortion for the sake of thats the only thing you can control? That's very wrong. Go color your hair or something.
I read this article once about a self proclaimed artist, she did life art, which by definition, I guess, is to affect other's lives, not so much by paintings or sculptures, but more by actions. So her "art" was to get impregnated and have at least 9 abortions. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people?

theclam said...

Dude! This is what I said on Jenera's blog:

Wow. I am disgusted to say the least. She killed 15 babies, not becuase it was a choice she needed to make to save her own life, not because she was raped but because she used their conceptions as a rebutal to her controlling husband. My God.

Then to liken hereself to an addict? How can anyone be addicted to killing her babies? That analogy is just, so off in my humble opinion. Personally I am pro-life. I understand that woman have choices and that it is their bodies and their decisions to make but like you Jenera, I cannot understand how a system that is quite willing to put in place laws to stop those seeking treatment from transfering more than one embryo at a time cannot put something in place to prevent recurring abortions like this. She used abortion as birth control. And somewhere along the line (where I don’t know but somewhere along the line) this should have been picked up and some question asked as to her mental state?

Wow.

Lisa said...

I am disgusted! She and the publishing company is exactly what is wrong with the world today. trying to make money off of a tragedy.

I agree with you in that I am pro choice but not pro abortion. But I think this definitely crosses a line as to what is reasonable. I feel very sorry for her two children...

Sarah R said...

I would never get one myself, but I am pro-choice, especially in situations of rape or incest.

My niece on DH's side was raped a couple years ago at the age of 15? Maybe 16? Well on the one-year anniversary of the rape, the guy came back with two other guys and they gang-raped her. She did not get pregnant, but if she did, OMG, this poor girl should be able to get an abortion. She went a year without telling her parents, living in shame, eventually took a bunch of pill to try and kill herself--immediately regretted it and told her mom--they took her to the hospital. She was in and out of treatment for a year or more--as in she was an inpatient at the hospital. The poor girl. Anyway, I was telling this story on a message board I'm a part of and this super religious girl started saying that my niece should not have the right to abortion because what about the poor baby? OMG, I was so mad.

Anyway, this case where this lady had 15 abortions and is now writing about it? What a loser. Seriously!

nancy said...

I guess I'm self righteous.

Of course there are examples of both sides of the coin, as there always is. But if I found myself pregnant under "normal" circumstances, no, I would never get one. If we always stated opinions using the extreme examples, no one would ever have an opinion because nothing is ever 100%. I'm going to go ahead and stay with my decision of saying "i'd never get one". I don't think I have to put the subtext of all the reasons it could happen.

Plus, the whole thing of saying "I'm pro choice but I wouldn't have one" isn't saying I'm pro abortion but anti abortion myself. It's that I'm pro the government staying the hell out of personal health decisions about a woman's body. Just wanted to say that. I'm not really pro-abortion in being "pro" all the reasons someone could have one. There are ALWAYS exceptions.

Kate said...

That's nuts!
I do anesthetics for terminations from time to time. I'm glad I'm not the ob/gyn doing them, and I get really really pissed when it's someone coming back for a repeat. Did you not learn that two forms of birth control are the only truly safe way to go?
I'd have been outraged at the woman who aborted twins after IVF. Unless there were some true medical reason why she'd be high risk to carry them, I really can't understand doing that when it was only two, especially after the journey she had to get to that point. Don't know if I'd have commented, but I'm sure I'd have shed an angry tear or two at home.

Mareike said...

Life is hard; perhaps nowhere more than in our relationships and choices regarding family.
A woman who has 15 abortions clearly has a psychological problem. Suggesting she should have just left the controlling husband if that was the problem seems a bit shallow. I'm wondering if this was an iteration of munchausen syndrome.
As for the woman who aborted her twins after going through IVF; I feel sad for her too. Perhaps she was suffering from depression from the effects of going through so much to conceive a child. I haven't been through it myself but I imagine it takes a toll on ones emotional well being. Our brain chemistry can get really wacked out from continued stress and trauma. I truly hope she doesn't suffer for the rest of her life over her decision.
I don't think there is a self-righteousness in saying, "I would never have an abortion." Perhaps it should be qualified by saying, "I can't imagine the situation in which I would elect to have an abortion" but we say what we feel at the time. Things change in our lives that we can't anticipate.
I am certainly pro-choice. Every child should come into this world into a loving family. I do know several women who had abortions when they were young and really struggled with the decision they had made when they had children later but it is THEIR struggle and they did not subject an innocent child to life when they weren't equipped to care for it.
Giving up a child for adoption is not necessarily a better choice. I know several people who were adopted and much as they love their adoptive families they have had a huge struggle with how someone gave them up or just wanting to know who they are. Children born from artificial insemination are looking for their biological dads; seeking half-siblings; looking for family. I'm not suggesting that these are all unhappy people who aren't glad to be alive only that all such decisions should not be made without an awareness of a particular burden on a child as he/she comes to define his/herself.
Well I've been going on. I'm not sure I said things right. It's just something I think about.

Steph O. said...

I commented over on the other blog as well.

I've read some of the comments you've gotten on here & I'm still going to go with my original statement that I am anti-abortion.

I will say that I can understand why some women may chose one, but I will not say that I think it's the right choice. I have thought of several different scenarios & can't imagine one where I would chose to terminate a life growing inside me.

As for the woman who had IVF, only to abort the twins, I can't say that I blame you for coming down hard on her. I prob would've wanted to, but may not have had the guts to!

Jenera said...

Wow, I didn't think I'd create quite a discussion :)

One more note on the abortion thing. I cannot honestly say that in my life I will NEVER be faced with the decision to have one. My husband and I have talked about it and he has said if I was pregnant and it came down to me or the baby surviving, but not both, he would insist on my having one.

I think when it is a medical necessity, there should be a way for a woman to have one. I think in the case of rape and incest there should be an outlet for women but only with EXTREME counseling.

My views against abortion tend to stem from those who abuse the procedure. Yes, maybe more women have them for legitimate reasons. But I have seen in my own life, and the media, that it is abused.

I also hate that young girls can go get them without parental consent. Yes, at times the pregnancy may be due to incest. And yes, maybe a young girl is afraid to tell her parents. All I know is that in my life I hope that my children can come to me. I may only have boys but someday they will have girlfriends. I hope they wouldn't hide this from me.

As a society we need to help out not only young girls but grown women who find themselves in the need of an abortion.

Kate said...

i couldn't read the article... this topic upsets me way too much. like you, i'm pro-choice, but personally i would NEVER abort a child.

& i'm with jenera on the twins situation. that woman knowingly took a risk & as a mom of twins,who struggled through a rough pregnancy to get my boys here safely, it makes me physically sick to think that some one could abort 2 healthy babies bc she didn't think she could "handle" it. & now i'm a hypocrite, bc when all is said & done, it really was HER choice. i don't know, this issue is just too charged for me to stay detached, i suppose...

Mrs. Gamgee said...

My husband and I were discussing things around this topic the other day. It's such a hard thing... I'm adamantly pro-life, but I could never tell another woman what to do with her body.

Tigger said...

I just saw that book this weekend while we were at the bookstore. I didn't read it. I saw the title and was immediately sickened. Told Aaron "I just saw a book that makes me ill and I don't even have to read it" and showed it to him. He agreed. The title alone is sickness-inducing. Abortion is not about control and if you think it is, you have more than one issue you need to deal with.

Anonymous said...

I was just talking to my mom about this whole subject.

She is equally outraged over the thought & says that this woman should not have the luxury of making money off of this. She should be required to donate the money to women in abusive relationships or some sort of child services.

~Steph O.

Jen said...

I'm in perfect agreement personally with your pro-choice but not pro-abortion stance. And that story about the person who had IVF and aborted because they were twins really pisses me off. That is fucking messed up. I'm glad you didn't keep your mouth shut even if it was her decision to make.

jenn said...

I couldn't even read the article- seeing what it is about is enough to make my blood boil.

I would have to say I'm with you in the pro-choice, anti-abortion corner. I can say without a doubt that I can not imagine a situation where I would willingly abort a child (the exception of course is a life/death situation), but I will defend the right to choose what to do with your own body. I have seen a few friends/relatives through abortions or heard their stories of having one- while their choices would not have been mine, I can not possible tell them what they should have done.

All that aside- there ~is~ a limit. There should be mandatory counseling- a peek into medical records to see situations like this & offer some sort of help- which this crazy bitch obviously needs. Not a book deal- that makes me ill.

Emmie :) said...

i'm totally pro-choice, in that the government needs to stay the hell away from my vagina. but just last year, a friend of mine - who's not married, but is a grown-up with a great job and a house and everything - got pregnant and had an abortion. right in the middle of my infertile-ness. that shit suuuuuucked. of course, it's her choice and i never judged her for it; but i just couldn't imagine being able to so easily get pregnant and NOT thank my lucky stars.

MrsSpock said...

I think it's a misconception that most abortions are for birth control. Stories like this woman's are far outside the scope of the typical. Half of women who have had an abortion report actually using birth control- birth control that has failed.

I personally don't condone this woman's behavior- or her creepy ex-husband's- and she is certainly doing no favors for the pro-choice movement that she insists has saved her life.

It is easy for us to condemn someone else for their choice and call it unacceptable, while reserving an exception for ourselves. One of the reasons I am pro-choice is that, while knowing I would not be open to an abortion under any normal circumstance, real women are faced with with that hard decision every day.

I spent two years hoping the spark of life would catch in my womb, and can't imagine wanting to snuff that out, but I also know that if I develop HELLP Syndrome at 20 weeks, and had to choose between one of us dying, or both of us dying, I'm not going to orphan my living son to prove an ideological point.

I can't claim to understand the actions of that certain blogger, but I know the fertile myrtles of the world often accuse us of selfishness and lack of thought when it comes to seeking a diagnosis or treatments. And that is rarely the case. I think it's only fair to entertain the possibility that many women who seek abortions are just as intelligent and capable of decision-making as I am, and they put just as much thought into their family planning decisions as I have into mine.

Geohde said...

I don't think I can bring myself to read the article. I hope you understand.

To put it another way *I* always said that I wouldn't do that exact thing, either.

It's a whole world of different and hurt when the shit really hits your personal fan for real and both choices are bad.

I had an abortion because I couldn't face delivering a dead baby with a confronting birth defect.

g

mommybird said...

The whole situation makes me so sad. I guess I don't put myself in the woman's place, but the child's. The child was not responsible for whatever the situation was and deserves the same chance at life that any other child conceived should have. I know there are a lot of loving homes that have not yet been blessed with the ability to have children who would almost kill for the chance to adopt those babies.

I guess I'm pro-choice in the same aspect that you are, in that the government should stay out of people's personal health choices because when they start mingling in one area they can pretty much start drawing the line on our rights anywhere they want, but other than that I'm definitely pro-life. Like you, I won't go into the special situations that might warrant it because there are many exceptions to everything. I'm outraged with you with both stories.

Krista said...

My heart just breaks to read that original article. I'm not an activist. I don't go out and shout my beliefs from the rooftops. In my heart, I believe in life. I believe every baby deserves a chance. To read about a woman using abortion as birth control, over and over again is just unconscionable in my mind. To me, it is like throwing a baby into the trash. I feel sick.

CanadianMama said...

What bothers me most about this article is the hateful comments being directed towards this woman (and any woman who has had an abortion, especially those for a non medical or trauma reason, as based on many of the comments on here). Most women who have had an abortion report that they did so because their birth control failed.

I see the whole anti-abortion or "pro-abortion but I would never have one" all the time and I can't identify with it. I just can't. I can imagine many situations where having a child would not be in my or my family's best interests. I can also imagine that for many other women.

Imagine being 16 and being pregnant. Imagine that he leaves you after you tell him and then imagine that your family refuses to support you once they learn of your situation. Imagine that all of your friends consider you to be a social outcast. What would you do? Real life is not like Juno. It's messy and complicated. Now imagine that 16 year old does not abort the child. Imagine what that child's history will be like. I can imagine it perfectly because in my years as a RSW I have worked with SO many of these kids.

I have also worked with MANY adoption placement breakdowns. Equally as heart breaking.

Now I know that someone who goes through IVF is a little different than the above scenario but I respect her for knowing her limits and not subjecting two lives to her inability to parent them properly. Should she have thought about that before hand, yes, absoutely. But she didn't - that's life! We all make mistakes! Until I have been in her shoes I simply will not judge anyone for choosing abortion, even as a means of birth control.

I respect someone's choice to be pro-life. I just wish that they would take all of the energy they put into their comments and posts and message boards and rallys and what not into actually helping someone who is facing an abortion. It is really easy to post something saying "fuck you" and really another thing to say "wow, this woman really needs my help, I'm going to give it to her".

My heart goes out to anyone being faced with such a difficult decision but at the end of the day I respect someone who is strong enough to know what is best for them!

mybumpyjourney said...

woah. I had not heard of this. How freakin' heart breaking. What about the doctors and nurses that are supposed to get a good history? Did she lie about all of them at the time- if not after several YEARS of back to back abortions someone should have delved into the situation deeper. She was(is?) a huge pile of messed-up-ness psychologically.
I am in no ways excusing her actions, but good grief- WTF?

I am a firm believer of the phrase "you never know what you will do until you are in that situation". It is so true. Until you personally are in a situation, you can spout off all the drivel you can- but you never really know until you are the one facing that desicion.
I had always said "how can sexually abused women not go to the authorities?" when was an ER nurse. That was until my fiance raped me when I tried to break up with him. I didn't go b/c he was a police officer. I try really hard not to judge now.

You never know...but SERIOUSLY- 15 abortions in that many years? She is fucked up. That is 12 kinds of wrong. I wonder how she is going to fuck up the minds of her children with her craziness.

Kristin said...

Damn...that is seriously fucked up.

akaiser said...

Absolutely horrific. To think this woman could abort her babies repeatedly - I just can not comprehend it.

I am pro life. I believe babies deserve a chance. I became pregnant at 21, and at 22, I had my first child. I won't go into the overly lengthy story, but I went through sheer emotional and mental HELL at the hands of my closest family & some 'friends' who harassed me constantly to 'make the SMART choice' and have an abortion. My then boyfriend/now husband and I honestly never considered it, and people acted as though we were dellusional for thinking we could have and raise a baby.

Well clearly we did. We worked out asses off, got our lives together, and were able to provide a stable, loving enviornment for our son. Our family has since grown to include our beautiful baby girl - we have truly been blessed.

I don't judge anyone who has made the decision to have an abortion, and in fact I have had some women very close to me, who have done it. I'll tell you it was a traumatizing and extremely difficult emotional ordeal for them, and I don't think they will ever get over it. Over 10 years later, I one of them still has difficulty interacting with babies and children, always contemplating the what-ifs.

I just believe that sometimes you have to take a leap of faith, and hope for the best. Things are not always just what they seem 'on paper.' That certainly wasn't the case in my situation.

But yea, this woman. It is so hearbreaking how some people would give anything to have one successful pregnancy and a healthy child, and here is this woman aborting 15 babies. I just can't understand.

Obviously the woman has SERIOUS issues and needs help. It amazes me how through the years, no red flags ever came up with her. Were the doctors not concerned with her history, or were they not aware? makes you wonder, how safe is abortion then really in this country? Is it just that easy to walk into a doctors office/clinic/whatever, and just have an abortion as though it was some kind of simple uncomplicated procedure, like a dental cleaning? Without having to disclose information about your health and your medical history? This woman clearly should have been referred to a psychiatrist.

Just because she has no physical complications that we know of now, we OBVIOUSLY can not deduce that having fifteen abortions is completely safe and without risks. Yet she was able to do so. Makes you really wonder about our healthcare system...