Thursday, August 14, 2008

Mind numbing Thursday.

It's Thursday today, but I think I may make it my Friday. Tomorrow is my birthday and I think it should be a law that you should get your birthday off from work, dontcha think?

Other than that, I have mind numbing work to complete today. I'm taking a quick break to check in because I don't want that last post to be my "newest" post, since I really don't want to give it that much credit. Yes, it happened. Yes, it sucked. But it certainly doesn't have any power over me now.

Now here is the part where I'm going to be a little non descript to mention something that happened yesterday. I wrote a post 4 months ago about a situation that really, truly bothered me. It was about something that was in the public eye and it was about someone I really didn't know.

Well, as you know, when someone puts something out there in public, and that something is quite, well, disturbing, not everyone is going to be happy with it. That's just the way life is - you put things out and you will be prone to judgements. I didn't contact the person who I was talking about, as I really was simply reacting to what I saw unfold in public. The main "thing" was not what was happening in the "now", but the choices that got that person there in the first place. It's something I feel VERY strongly about and being my blog, I pretty much have every right to talk about it.

From some other events, this person ended up 'knowing' me and went and read months and months of my blog, finally coming upon my discussion. What I feel bad about is not over my opinion on the situation, as I still feel exactly the same way about it, but I do wish she didn't have to read it in the angry context I wrote it in. I was just off of a failed IVF and an about to be cancelled FET, so my emotions were high. I wrote it in a way where I chose some of the wrong words to describe it and I do apologize for that now. But I will not apologize for writing it in the first place. It was and still is my opinion, an opinion that I am allowed to have.

I could see if I took something in confidence and wrote about it in this public blog. But I didn't. I talked about the choices that were made at the time, landing this person in quite a tough situation. A situation, that I may add, I have always honestly felt bad about. I think people are assuming I don't wish this person well or that because I didn't agree with the decision that got this person there, that I don't care for the welfare of her "now". But of course I do. I wish this person nothing but good things. Just because I feel it was this person's own "fault" for getting into this position, doesn't mean I want this person to fail. That's absurd! This person needs amazing strength to continue on and I hope this person succeeds. I don't mind this person is "around" at all, nor would I want anyone to change their opinion to mine. I don't hate this person, I don't think this person should lose support. I simply feel strongly about some decisions that were made months and months ago. That was it. My feelings on the subject don't follow this person around after that first decision. What had to happen, well, had to happen.

Let me try to put it this way. Let's say a person decided to rob a bank and now they are in prison. You can be very upset with their decision to rob a bank, right? But that doesn't mean you hope they are assaulted everyday in prison. In fact, you can hope nothing but the best for them and that they learned from their bad decision so they won't make it again. And maybe others will see this person landed in prison and they won't make the same mistake. There's nothing different between how I feel and this example.

What I would hope to see is that others will understand it's okay for someone to have an opinion about a situation, regardless of who the person is. You can like a person who is in prison and still not agree with what got them there in the first place. I have a friend who I adore who just got out of jail a few years ago. I love him to death but I don't agree with the crime he committed. And see how I can still talk about how I definitely don't agree with the crime, but still like the person? I just feel people are missing this point.

But, alas, I can't do anything about the judgements people make about me. The same way they can't do anything about the judgements I make on their public actions. So what can you really do? When you put yourself out there in the public eye, people make assumptions and judgements about you. If I never wanted to be judged, I wouldn't talk about all the details of my life. Hell, there ARE things I don't care for the public to discuss about me because I just couldn't see a negative thought about it. So guess what? I don't discuss those things!

All I'm saying is it's human nature to judge. Why do you think America is so fascinated with the "famous"? We judge Britney's ability to mother. We judge who's got the "best bikini body." And that's just dumb shit. Write an article about being pro-life or pro-choice and see how many people judge your stance. Tell the world you just aborted a baby and see how many people will have an opinion. Write a book about how you breastfeed and see how many people will judge your decision. Money. Politics. Religion. My goodness, look how many millions of lives have been lost over religion!

It's all about judgements. Opinions. The more "sensitive" the subject, the more judgements are going to come in for or against you. I had a strong opinion about one of the more sensitive subjects and I wrote about it. And believe me, this ~exact~ topic has been discussed more than once, I've seen it in multiple places. I'm just one of the people who also was deeply disturbed by something I saw in public. Are we not supposed to have opinions? Are we not allowed to discuss things just because there is a human being involved in it? No. We live in a wonderful free country and it's one of our most beloved rights. Could you imagine how terrible it would be if we all had to keep our opinions to ourselves? At least I didn't make an already bad situation worse by giving my opinion where I knew it would be read by someone already in a lot of emotional pain. I kept it to where I thought it would be safe. It's simply unfortunate it had to be uncovered in the manner it was, months and months after the fact.


Duck said...

Wow I actually *think* I remember what you're blogging about, but not sure. It's hard, as always when you have an opinion, it's your blog, it's your place to voice your opinion... and if it's what i remember, well it's always hard for the long suffering infertile to hear that type of news, now or ever, as for me, i'm sensitive, i will never ever ever ever be pregnant, so it's hard for me even to remember what it was all about. anyway, we're all entitled to opinions!

Morgan said...

I'm confused, so no comment...I haven't thought this hard all day, HaHa!

fuentes said...

I think I know what situation you are talking about, and I actually wondered if that person would find your blogg, as I know I often skim though people’s bloggs when I seem them in a sig., heck that is how I found yours. It is too bad her feelings are hurt, but I agree that you should not feel bad about having and voicing your opinion. I think it is going to take some understanding on her part, and even though you say you wrote that post in anger, I remember reading your responses to comments and I think you did a pretty good job of explaining your position.

nancy said...

Fuentes, Thank you so much for the comment. And I'm glad you saw that I did explain my position in the comments. It's hard to sit back and let others assume certain things without reading the entire story.

About her finding my blog, I actually didn't remember who she was. Although I initially blogged her screenname (I just took it out yesterday), it's not something I remembered. I was freaking shocked when I realized who it was last week, although I don't know why I didn't think she would be there. That's my fault. But when I wrote it, I was far from pregnancy and really, when I became pregnant, thinking about hiding a post I blogged about months prior wasn't really what was on my mind. I am saddened that her feeling got hurt, but that was not my intention.

Katherine said...

I have to admit I was hoping you'd write a response here, since everything personal eventually gets deleted from the other board. I didn't want your last post to be your last post. My take on the whole thing is this--both of you put things out there in a public forum that you knew could be controversial, inflammatory, and even hurtful. Both of you had every right to do so, and BOTH of you more than anything have the right to express your own opinons and feelings on any subject you choose. She knew when she put it out there that it would be repulsive to some--hell, it was repulsive to HER, hence her self-loathing and suffering over the whole deal. Your reaction should not have been a surprise, since she was feeling the same way on many levels. I was coming off a failed IVF cycle at the time, too, and her news shocked and devastated me, too; but the only difference in your and my reaction was that I immediately thought (regarding her actions), "What crazy, fucked-up things this BITCH called infertility can make us do." I could not honestly say at that moment I would not have done what she did, so I did not get angry so much as I put myself in her shoes. IF has made me irrational and irresponsible in many ways at different times, and I saw myself in a very scary mirror when reading her post.

That said, I do not want you to leave the board--I think you add so much insight and interest--but I also would not blame you if you did. Who needs the stress, right? If it's not helpful, move on. But I will continue to read your blog and keep up with you that way, because I would miss my daily dose of Nancy!

nancy said...

Thanks Katherine. The biggest thing to me was watching all of the "fuck her, ~WE~ support you!" like I didn't support her situation. Just because I was appauled at the decision she made, doesn't mean I write her off now. I just remember on the "first" board asking "my lord, you didn't go forward, DID YOU?" which I got no response and that was all I followed. I learned of the link I blogged about from someone else. I think it's because I saw the situation unfold and then to see the terrible mess she had to clean up, well, I was beside myself with "well, DUH! Of course you'd be there! Hence Drs orders!". Ugh. Here I go, talking about it again. Obviously I still have the same opinion.

But, that is why I didn't talk to her first hand when I blogged it. I even said something to the effect of "what in the world would my anger do to her 'now'?" Maybe my blog showed someone else why Dr's should be listened to. Maybe it served as a warning. ~shrug~

I honestly don't know if I'll be back due to the other girls assuming this is a me vs her thing, when it's so obviously not. It's a me disagreeing not listening to Dr's orders. Can't you be a supporter and not agree with what happened? I mean, if it's that black and white, is everyone of her supporters happy with the decision she made to get her there?

Kaci said...

I think you do a great job of explaining your positions. Your analogy about the crime/prison makes sense. And when people post *anything* on the internet they shouldn't expect it to be private. That person shared details about her life on a public forum, instead of posting your thoughts there you chose to do so here instead, so as not to add to her angst, which you admitted (if I'm thinking of the right situation) and now she has seen things here. Oh well. Maybe at some point she'll realize you were doing her a favor by posting here instead of the message board?

Oh yeah, my sis gets an extra day off during the month of her birthday - I think that should be a requirement at every company! Have a Happy Birthday! :)

Katherine said...

1) I agree with you that the best thing that could possibly come out of any of this is that her story could become a cautionary tale for those in the same situation (and there are a LOT of them out there, as you and I both know).
2) I'm not really sure how many people (other than a couple of obvious ones) saw this as a "you against her" thing. I think most of them were doing what you are advocating now, and that's offering her support in the here and now.
3) AND...I didn't say it before, but have a HAPPY BIRTHDAY tomorrow!!!

Hollie said...

This is a difficult topic. I didn't see the posts yesterday but I can connect the dots on what happened. I think both ladies (Nancy and other) are strong women who have been through hell to get pregnant. One didn't make very good decisions, which there is no argument against that. I agree with Kat that IF makes us not think straight sometimes. There are numerous cases of women implanting 4 embryos. In my mind, this is just as dangerous. It's just a shame that someone's feelings were hurt as I care about both of these ladies very much.

nancy said...


If you remember when I tranferred 4 embryos (no such thing as impanting embryos), you'd remember that I spoke of this VERY thing. That IF does make someone do crazy ass things. But in my case, my 4 embryos did not all have the same chance as having x number of maybes. I had very poor lining and the 3rd and 4th embie was of poorer quality. In fact, the 4th embie was just put in me instead of "throwing it away". So I knew I has a 1% of 3% chance of having all 4 stick. But if I had all 4 stick by some crazy set of circumstances, that's the max I'd be able to carry. I wasn't putting in more than I could handle. I simply don't believe in trying with WAY MORE than you can handle, knowing you can simply dispose of the "extra". This is why I would opt to cancel instead of moving forward, because I would never ever get into a position like that in the first place. And hence my opinion on that first decision.

Bree said...

I have to agree with Katherine.

This woman's story placed a scary mirror in front of many of us. While I've never had to decide how many embryos to transfer, I've had to make a judgement call about having an IUI done with four mature follicles.

Had that cycle actually mother effin' worked, the chance of multiples was high. Would I have reduced? Highly doubtful. Would I have appreciated full freedom of choice on the matter? Absolutely.

I have a feeling that the reason this post set off so many fireworks is that it brushed the edges of reproductive freedom. In my current context, working so hard to get pregnant, the thought of having an ab.rtion is horrible. I wouldn't take that choice away from anyone, though. I recognize that without protections for my reproductive freedom, I wouldn't be allowed to use donor sp.rm or ART.

Double edged sword.

Jenera said...

Not to take away anything from the importance of this post but tomorrow is my birthday too!

Anywho, I have had posts written in anger that were both justified and not and have had the person of interest stumble upon it. I have never apologized for anything I have posted or written mainly because I make it a point to not post anything I would not say to someone's face. It can be hard at times but I try.

I think I might remember what situation you are referring too. But I agree with other commenters that the internet can be very public, even unintentionally. And when things are put out there, you run the risk of hearing things back you don't like. Even if on a message board or other blog.

Hollie said...

Nancy - Thanks for clearing that up for me. I didn't mean any judgment to you. I agree that you didn't have much chance of implanting 4, but you're right that 4 is a managable number. You made an informed decision and you knew the possible outcomes and accepted them. I agree that if the possible outcomes as in the other case were not safe, I would have cancelled.

On a happy note - Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday dear Nancy... Happy birthday to you!

And my birthday is on a holiday so I never have to work... New Year's Day. BUT I usually get forgotten because it's so close to Christmas, and this year I'll probably get baby stuff for my birthday.

Cibele said...

Just want to wish you happy birthday!

Elana Kahn said...

I also want to wish you a happy birthday. And I want to let you know that I agree that one should not transfer more embryos than they are prepared to carry to full term, and that (especially with all I've been through) I cannot imagine having to make a choice about reducing. And I probably would have had an angry post like yours if I had seen it happen, although I'm sure that person beat herself up plenty over it. And I do hope that you continue posting and that the other party also does not feel as though people are ganging up on her. It's a horrible situation and at least now (hopefully) she knows that you had no intention of causing her any more pain that she already was harboring.

jenn said...

We've chatted already- but I wanted to wish you a very happy birthday!!!!

Jennifer said...

Happy Birthday!

I haven't had to deal with IF so I can't say what I'd do in these situations. I pray that I never have to experience these either!!

I know what blog you are talking about, but your blog wasn't the first place that I saw it. I guess if you are trying for so long and nothing has worked you could assume that anything extra would just give you a chance.

Just a curious question. What would you have done if some freak chances your embryos would have all taken and one or more actually split to identical twins? I know crazy odds, but you never know..

nancy said...

Jennifer, I don't disagree that selective reduction is necessary sometimes when, like you said, "freak" things happen. But to use selective reduction as a tool just to get a better chance at one or two? Yeah, I don't agree.

theclam said...

I can deduce what this is all about (having not seen the original posts in discussion) and also do not agree with elective reduction as a point of ensuring one vs two babies. In freak cases where it may effect the health of the mother or the other babies it might be something that I would consider but I am not so sure that I *personally* would be able to go through with it.

nancy said...

This has been talked about enough. due to the recent events, i wanted to bring up the point that it wasn't malicious, which it wasn't. As far as me being ~able~ to talk about it, that's for me to decide.

To "anon" who pointed out she didn't expect it to happen, I agree. But it was definitely a HUGE possibility. Why do you thing the Dr (you know, the one who went to med school) refused to continue the cycle? Because it WAS a possibility. Sure, I'd hope to god it wouldn't happen, but even with the possibility of that many? Oy. It's simply something I wouldn't do. YOU can choose to do it and so can anyone else, but I've just got an opinion that I think it's the wrong decision. Plain and simple. :)